Ambassador Matthew Whitaker, former Acting Attorney General during the President Donald Trump’s first administration, is carving out a place for himself in the President’s second term as the United States' Permanent Representative to NATO.
Confirmed earlier this month, Whitaker takes on the role at a crucial time in the alliance, as President Donald Trump enacts his ‘America First’ foreign policy agenda.
Ambassador Whitaker spoke with Scripps News on his role and the Trump administration's foreign policy goals.
Watch the full interview:
NATO COMMITMENT
“My job is to make sure that NATO is strong, that America, you know, lives up to our commitments, but also that our allies live up to their commitments and I think we're on a really good path based on my first seven days in office,” Whitaker said.
Whitaker said the priorities for the US in the alliance are “to make NATO a modern war fighting alliance” focused on the threats of Russia, as well as hybrid and asymmetrical threats.
“It’s preparing the Alliance for the future and to make sure that kind of under investment in defense that we've seen over the last, really, since 1991, since the fall of the wall, I think, you know, is fixed, and ultimately that we have an equal alliance between the United States and our 31 allies that bears the burden equally and addresses the threats, but is strong, and is credible, and is a deterrence and a force for peace,” Whitaker said.
“I just got my challenge coin created, and it very boldly says ‘peace through strength’, which I think NATO should stand for,” he added, reflecting how President Trump has summarized his foreign policy agenda.
Allies have closely watched the United States role in the alliance. In President Trump’s first term, he cast questions over the country’s commitment to it as he called for allies to more fairly share costs.
Whitaker said he doesn’t see a scenario where the US leaves the alliance.
“I think President Trump said it the best, you know, we are committed to the alliance as long as it works and is done right. And that's what I'm there to do, is to make sure it works, and is done right. And I think--I have heard nothing but a strong commitment from the other 31 allies, that they hear it loud and clear and that they are also committed to a NATO that works and is done right,” Whitaker said.
DEFENSE SPENDING
Trump has called for allies to spend 5 percent of their GDP on defense. Last year, 22 allies were expected to meet the threshold of 2 percent investment of their GDP in defense.
“I think of NATO's defense spending, the US is about two thirds right now, and I think the President has been pretty clear that he wants that equalized. And obviously we need to address not just the Euro-Atlantic threats. We have, you know, Indo-Pacific threats, and we have, you know, High North Arctic threats. I mean, you know, The United States as the only superpower in the world right now, has a lot of threats, and we need to make sure we're strong on every front,” Whitaker said.
Whitaker indicated it will be “a period of time to ramp up” for the US and allies to meet the threshold, but noted more commitments being made.
When asked if the US’ article five commitment extends to allies who have not met the spending target, Whitaker called article five “ironclad.”
“President Trump has been pretty clear that he expects our allies to meet their commitments. And I think you'll see by the end of June that all allies are at 2%, and if not, they're going to have to have a serious conversation with President Trump. I think Article 5, though, in the alliance is a commitment to the alliance and to, you know, an attack on one is an attack on all. But remember, you know, you can't ignore the rest of the articles, including Article 3, which I mentioned in my confirmation here, which is, you know, that it's a commitment to not only the collective defense, but also individual defense. And so, you're seeing, and I want to make sure that it's emphasized, we're seeing a lot of allies respond. I mean, you know, dramatic commitments,” he said, mentioning steps from the Baltics, Poland and Germany in particular.
But Whitaker said it was not only about spending, but also capabilities including coproduction and interoperability.
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RUSSIA’S WAR IN UKRAINE
On NATO’s doorstep, though, is Russia’s war in Ukraine.
Trump believes Russia would not have invaded Ukraine under his leadership.
The Trump administration has sought to negotiate a ceasefire with hopes of a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. His administration has restarted dialogue with Russian President Vladimir Putin, as Trump has not publicly put direct blame on Putin.
Whitaker said he shares “President Trump’s desire for peace.”
“We need the fighting to stop, the killing to stop, and we need both sides, everybody, to step up and agree to peace. I think you've seen the Ukrainians in real time. They have agreed to a ceasefire with really no conditions, and now you're seeing the Russians dragging their feet. And I think, you know, President Trump and I know Secretary Rubio are becoming a little frustrated about it, and Secretary Rubio said, we don't want to have negotiations on negotiations. We want an agreement that ends the killing, and then we can get to an enduring peace. And I think that's the most important thing,” Whitaker said.
Trump said there was a psychological deadline for Putin to agree to a ceasefire, as Ukraine has accused Putin of stalling as military attacks continued. Just days after US envoy Steve Witkoff met with Putin, Russia launched attacks in Sumy that killed civilians over the weekend. Trump said he was told Russia “made a mistake. But I think it’s a horrible thing.”
When asked if he condemns the attack, Whitaker said "of course."
“Of course, anytime civilians are being killed. I mean, war is horrible, and it just breaks your heart. And you see those images, which you know, are just heartbreaking, and to know that those are, you know, children and mothers and fathers and sons and daughters. I mean, it's just, it's horrible, and so I mean you know, whether the U.S. ambassador to NATO condemns an individual hit, I mean, we could be doing this all day every day. That's the problem with war; it's why it needs to end is because not only do soldiers die but, you know, there are innocent people that are also dying and being wounded. And so, we just need to end this,” Whitaker said.
Whether Putin is serious about wanting peace in light of the attack on Sumy, Whitaker, like other administration officials, points to actions over words, noting he can’t “get inside the mind of Vladimir Putin”.
“I think ultimately, it's going to be about the actions, it's going to be about ending the killing. I think you've seen some, you know, a little bit of success on the energy infrastructure ceasefire. Both sides are claiming violations, but I recently heard Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense say that it's mostly, or for the most part, holding firm. And again, I think we're just going to have to see the actions on both sides. You know, I think the actions of the Ukrainians whose land its being fought on, are speaking a little louder than the Russians. But these things can change, and obviously Special Envoy Witkoff is fully engaged in that diplomacy to try to find a way to end the killing, which is the most important thing,” Whitaker said.
Trump continues to believe Russia wants to end the war.
“Steve Witkoff said last night, he believes that Russia wants to end this war and the president believes that as well. There is incentive for Russia to end this war and perhaps that could be economic partnerships with the United States.But we need to see a ceasefire first and the president, and the presidential envoy Witkoff that very clear to the Russians” White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt told reporters in the White House press briefing Tuesday.
FUTURE NATO SPENDING
Over the past few years of war, NATO allies have increased defense aid to Ukraine, bolstered the alliances eastern flank and added new members.
Whitaker said the US is always reviewing its assets from a security standpoint around the globe.
“We just have to identify what's in the American interest. And at the same time, we need to make sure that the NATO alliance is strong. And that's what I'm trying to do is make sure that our allies, our 31 other allies, that are committed to, you know, security of primarily Europe, but the Euro-Atlantic area, that they're equally capable of, and we can all share the burden, and that's what this alliance has always been about. I think you know now that we're refocused on what the threats are to the Euro-Atlantic Alliance, I think you're just going to see, you know, kind of those conversations ongoing, but I think those conversations include our allies and making sure that that we all agree as to what's necessary,” Whitaker said.
The administration expects to send a rescission package to lawmakers after Easter recess, according to a White House official, including programs from USAID and the State Department.
A memo obtained by Scripps News drafted by state department officials suggests “eliminating funding for the UN, NATO, OAS and over 20 organizations.”
“No final funding decisions have been made,” White House Office of Budget and Management communications director Rachel Cauley told Scripps News when asked about the memo.
“That’s from a story that is looking at a memo that was leaked or not from a plan that is a suggestion. What I can tell you though is it really makes me concerned when I see the word eliminate,” State Department spokesperson Tammy Bruce told reporters Tuesday when pressed on cuts, noting Sec. Rubio has reiterated the commitment to NATO.
“That’s where when we think about the story about eliminating funding to NATO couldn’t be further from the truth, this is about making NATO stronger,” Bruce said.
Whitaker said he has not seen the memo.
“What the President decides to do with NATO, with the UN and other multinational alliances, I don't think that's going to impact what the United States is doing as it relates to security in Europe as part of the NATO alliance. It's kind of who pays for overhead is all that this is about. It has nothing to do with our overall commitment to, you know, the strategic security of the Euro-Atlantic region,” he said.
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A full transcript of the interview between Scripps News Group’s Haley Bull and Ambassador Matthew Whitaker is below.
HALEY BULL: Ambassador, thank you so much for joining Scripps News. We really appreciate it. It's a new administration; you're a new ambassador. Are there new priorities for the United States role in NATO?
AMBASSADOR WHITAKER: One, it's back to the familiar, where the threat for the Euro-Atlantic Alliance is Russia. It's very clear that, especially those on the eastern flank, feel it very, you know, real. But at the same time, you know, I think that the priorities are obviously to make NATO a modern war fighting alliance that is focused on, you know, the threats, both, you know, the threat of Russia, but also, you know, sort of what I would call kind of hybrid threats and asymmetrical threats. And so, it's preparing the Alliance for the future and to make sure that kind of under investment in defense that we've seen over the last, really, since 1991, since the fall of the wall, I think, you know, is fixed, and ultimately that we have an equal alliance between the United States and our 31 allies that bears the burden equally and addresses the threats, but is strong, and is credible, and is a deterrence and a force for peace. You know, I just got my challenge coin created, and it very boldly says ‘peace through strength’, which I think NATO should stand for.
BULL: And when you look at that long-term vision, what are the steps that you need to accomplish in this role to achieve that?
WHITAKER: Well, remember, I was confirmed, and then I was immediately on a plane over there, and now I'm back doing the things that I sort of avoided doing or postponed doing. And so, I think, you know, what I've been able to communicate and share is that we need to build the relationships, you know, I need to get to know every one of the allies. I need to, you know, have a great relationship with the generals, the Secretary General Mark Ruta, and at the same time, you know, we're all going as fast as we can to the summit at The Hague at the end of June. And so, you know, there's really no time to not roll up our sleeves and do the hard work of making sure that this alliance is built to last and is built for deterrence and built for peace.
BULL: What is the U.S.’s commitment to NATO at this point? Is there a scenario in which the United States pulls out from NATO?
WHITAKER: I don't see that scenario, and I don't think Marco Rubio or Pete Hegseth or President Trump or JD Vance. I mean, I know, there's a desire for reassurance that, you know, the Americans will be there, and I think the commitment has been articulated. You know, I think President Trump said it the best, you know, we are committed to the alliance as long as it works and is done right. And that's what I'm there to do, is to make sure it works, and is done right. And I think--I have heard nothing but a strong commitment from the other 31 allies, that they hear it loud and clear and that they are also committed to a NATO that works and is done right. And you've seen, I mean, after the November election, four allies have already committed to spending 5% of their GDP on defense. Another eight have dramatically increased their defense spending, including the Germans, which changed their constitution in order to spend almost a trillion euro on defense. And, you know, spending is one thing, and that's, I mean, maybe we'll get to this later, but, you know, it is not just spending, it is capabilities. And that, I think, is after The Hague and after everyone commits to, you know, making sure the alliance thrives and survives, then we're going to have to roll up our sleeves in and work on things like coproduction, legality, interoperability and sort of the important stuff that will ultimately mean that the alliance is built to last.
BULL: Is there a timeline for not only allies, but the U.S. to reach that 5% defense spending threshold?
WHITAKER: Yeah, I think Secretary Rubio said it best. It's not going to happen overnight, and it's going to be incremental, but I don't think it's going to be forever. I mean, that's one of the problems with the Wales pledge we saw, is that it was 2% someday, and you had Canadians and other allies, you know, sort of not be serious about the 10-year pledge on that spending. And so I think it's going to be, you know, a period of time to ramp up, but remember, their defense industrial base couldn't get to 5% spending and deliver all of the things, and that would cause dramatic orders to back up, and so we're going to have to work on all these things simultaneously. I think the United States, just last week, I saw where Secretary Hegseth and the President suggested a trillion dollars in this next budget for defense spending that, you know, put us around 4% and I think that's a good path, ultimately, to get that. But you know, one of the things that we should never forget is, you know, we're about $850 billion and 5% of the U.S. would be, I think about $1.4 trillion dollars of our GDP, and our allies are nowhere close to that. In fact, I think of NATO's defense spending, the US is about two thirds right now, and I think the President has been pretty clear that he wants that equalized. And obviously we need to address not just the Euro-Atlantic threats. We have, you know, Indo-Pacific threats, and we have, you know, High North Arctic threats. I mean, you know, The United States as the only superpower in the world right now, has a lot of threats, and we need to make sure we're strong on every front.
BULL: And when we talk about the threats for NATO allies, obviously that Article 5 commitment is so important. Does the U.S.’s participation in the Article 5 commitment extend to allies who have not yet met the defense spending thresholds?
WHITAKER: Well, I mean, again, President Trump has been pretty clear that he expects our allies to meet their commitments. And I think you'll see by the end of June that all allies are at 2%, and if not, they're going to have to have a serious conversation with President Trump. I think Article 5, though, in the alliance is a commitment to the alliance and to, you know, an attack on one is an attack on all. But remember, you know, you can't ignore the rest of the articles, including Article 3, which I mentioned in my confirmation here, which is, you know, that it's a commitment to not only the collective defense, but also individual defense. And so, you're seeing, and I want to make sure that it's emphasized, we're seeing a lot of allies respond. I mean, you know, dramatic commitments. In the Baltics you're seeing dramatic commitments to increase defense spending, you're seeing dramatic commitments from Poland, for example, and you know, I already mentioned the Germans and so many others, but you know, we need to continue to see those commitments. But again, as I mentioned before, I think Article 5 is ironclad for those in the alliance. But you know, we also need some of our laggard allies to step up, and they know that, and we're seeing that happen.
BULL: Obviously for allies, a major concern, as you mentioned, has been the threat of Russia and a war with Ukraine that's really on NATO's doorstep. We've heard President Trump blame three people for this: Russia, Joe Biden and Zelensky. Do you agree? Who's at fault here?
WHITAKER: Well, I share President Trump's desire for peace. I think the more I learn about what's happening in real time on the battlefield, the more just gruesome and brutal it is. I read over the weekend an article that just talked about how meter by meter--since I'm from Iowa we talk about yards--but you know, just what a slog it is, and how many people are dying and just being slaughtered in a real World War I style battle of trench warfare, and that needs to end. Sort of assigning who is at fault and relatively who is to blame, I think President Trump has been very clear. If he had been president in 2022, it would have never started because he is a strong leader. And now that it has gone on for over three years, it's time for it to stop. We need the fighting to stop, the killing to stop, and we need both sides, everybody, to step up and agree to peace. I think you've seen the Ukrainians in real time. They have agreed to a ceasefire with really no conditions, and now you're seeing the Russians dragging their feet. And I think, you know, President Trump and I know Secretary Rubio are becoming a little frustrated about it, and Secretary Rubio said, we don't want to have negotiations on negotiations. We want an agreement that ends the killing, and then we can get to an enduring peace. And I think that's the most important thing.
BULL: Do you still think Russian President Vladimir Putin is serious about wanting peace? I know Secretary Rubio said it'd be a few weeks, he would see if he was serious.
Over the weekend, we saw the attack in Sumy, though, for instance. So, I guess at this point, do you think he's serious?
WHITAKER: I have no ability to get inside of the mind of Vladimir Putin, and thank goodness I don't, but it's all about actions. You know, words don't matter at this point in time. I think ultimately, it's going to be about the actions, it's going to be about ending the killing. I think you've seen some, you know, a little bit of success on the energy infrastructure ceasefire. Both sides are claiming violations, but I recently heard Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense say that it's mostly, or for the most part, holding firm. And again, I think we're just going to have to see the actions on both sides. You know, I think the actions of the Ukrainians whose land its being fought on, are speaking a little louder than the Russians. But these things can change, and obviously Special Envoy Witkoff is fully engaged in that diplomacy to try to find a way to end the killing, which is the most important thing.
BULL: The action we saw this weekend was the attack in Sumy. Do you condemn that attack?
WHITAKER: Of course, anytime civilians are being killed. I mean, war is horrible, and it just breaks your heart. And you see those images, which you know, are just heartbreaking, and to know that those are, you know, children and mothers and fathers and sons and daughters. I mean, it's just, it's horrible, and so I mean you know, whether the U.S. ambassador to NATO condemns an individual hit, I mean, we could be doing this all day every day. That's the problem with war; it's why it needs to end is because not only do soldiers die but, you know, there are innocent people that are also dying and being wounded. And so, we just need to end this. We need peace. You know, I think President Trump has said that he's committed to peace. He wants, you know, he wants everyone to thrive, and he wants all, you know, people all over the world to have peace and prosperity. And you know, but especially he wants the American people to have that. And so, we're going to have to end this war as soon as we possibly can that's happening between Russia and Ukraine, and then the commitment, I think then, is going to be, how do we rebuild Ukraine as an independent, free nation as best we can, under whatever agreement can be struck. But that's why President Trump is the master negotiator in this. I think he'll be able to bring this to a conclusion that, again, neither side is going to get everything they want, but that's what negotiations are. And so, we're going to see, I think, hopefully soon, that this killing will stop, and we can get to peace.
BULL: When we talk about the United States commitment to NATO as a whole, you've talked about a long-term vision. Will the U.S. maintain its resources that are committed to the alliance at this time?
WHITAKER: I mean, obviously the United States is always reviewing how their assets and people are deployed from a security standpoint. And you know, that’s the case whether it's in Europe, whether it's in Asia, or anywhere around the globe. We just have to identify what's in the American interest. And at the same time, we need to make sure that the NATO alliance is strong. And that's what I'm trying to do is make sure that our allies, our 31 other allies, that are committed to, you know, security of primarily Europe, but the Euro-Atlantic area, that they're equally capable of, and we can all share the burden, and that's what this alliance has always been about. I think you know now that we're refocused on what the threats are to the Euro-Atlantic Alliance, I think you're just going to see, you know, kind of those conversations ongoing, but I think those conversations include our allies and making sure that that we all agree as to what's necessary.
BULL: We know the administration is preparing a rescission package to send over to Congress, and we've seen a memo from State Department officials that suggests eliminating funding for NATO. Have you seen this memo, and are you concerned about the message that sends to allies as you're also trying to send that message about the U.S.’s role in it?
WHITAKER: Yeah, I haven't seen that that memo, but I have read the news reports that were breaking, you know, last night and today. This is sort of what I call ‘corporate NATO’, which is, you know, which five, six of every dollar that's spent on sort of the NATO budget is paid for by our allies. What the President decides to do with NATO, with the UN and other multinational alliances, I don't think that's going to impact what the United States is doing as it relates to security in Europe as part of the NATO alliance. It's kind of who pays for overhead is all that this is about. It has nothing to do with our overall commitment to, you know, the strategic security of the Euro-Atlantic region.
BULL: Okay, so anything else I haven't asked that you want to add?
WHITAKER: No, I'm just glad to do this. You know, it's interesting. You know, having been, you know, the Attorney General for a period of time, and having only, you know, one person above you, you know, now I have a couple people that are my bosses and, you know, and so obviously, Secretary Rubio and President of the United States are going to set policy for the United States. My job is to make sure that NATO is strong, that America, you know, lives up to our commitments, but also that our allies live up to their commitments and I think we're on a really good path based on my first seven days in office.
