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Boulder King Soopers shooting trial day 7: Forensic psychologist testifies about shooter's state of mind

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Editor's note: Denver7 has chosen to not include the defendant's name in our coverage of the trial to respect victims and their loved ones, and to not glorify the defendant. This trial aims to determine if the defendant was insane or not at the time of the shooting — not if he shot and killed people at the King Soopers, which the defense is not contesting. Therefore, we have removed words such as "alleged" and "suspected" from our trial coverage when referring to him.

BOULDER COUNTY, Colo. — The jury trial is underway to determine if a defendant accused of shooting and killing 10 people at a King Soopers store in Boulder on March 22, 2021 was insane at the time of the shooting.

The defendant was arrested the same day as the mass shooting, but the case was stalled by several competency hearings. He was found competent to stand trial in August 2023 and pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity three months later. He faces a slew of charges, including 10 counts of first-degree murder, 38 counts of attempted murder, first-degree assault, and six counts of using a large-capacity magazine in a crime, plus multiple crimes of violence.

The 10 people who lost their lives that day were Suzanne Fountain, Rikki Olds, Boulder Police Officer Eric Talley, Jody Waters, Denny Stong, Tralona Bartkowiak, Neven Stanisic, Kevin Mahoney, Lynn Murray and Teri Leiker. Read more about them here.

Opening statements began on the morning of Sept. 5. Denver7 will follow each day of this trial. Read the latest below.

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Denver7's Coverage of the Boulder King Soopers Shooting

Friday, Sept. 13

The prosecution began the day by calling Wendy Kane, a criminalist with the Boulder Police Department, to the stand. Kane's job is to collect evidence from crime scenes and analyze it.

Kane responded to the Boulder King Soopers on the afternoon of the shooting. She testified that she went through the store when the decision was made that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) would be handling the scene.

The next morning, she went to the intensive care unit (ICU) to see the shooter. Body-camera video of the interaction was shown to the jury, however, the video was muted so Kane explained what was happening.

Kane testified that the video showed investigators taking pictures of the shooter's leg wounds, as well as pictures of his hands. The criminalists tested his hands using a gunshot residue kit, and used swabs to collect any evidence. They also took nail scrapings for evidence, according to Kane.

During the evidence collection, the shooter did not speak to anyone, according to Kane. He did not talk to himself and did not ask investigators who they were or what they were doing, Kane said.

The prosecution then called Detective Sarah Cantu back to the stand. This was her third time testifying in the trial.

Cantu began her testimony by discussing 3D photos of the crime scene. She described the bullet holes in the glass.

The prosecution then questioned the shooter's purchases prior to the incident. According to Cantu, the suspect purchased acetone and hydrochloric acid from Amazon on Jan. 28, 2021. Between Feb. 18 and Feb. 27, the shooter also purchased a rifle bag, ear protection, a rifle sling, a Monstrum Tactical scope, a tactical vest and a gun holster from Amazon, Cantu testified.

On Jan. 26, the suspect purchased three 10-round magazines for an assault rifle from a gun store, according to Cantu. The detective testified that the shooter purchased additional magazines from another retailer.

Cantu said records from Chase Bank show that the suspect made a purchase at Eagles Nest Armory on Feb. 22 and another purchase at Westminster Arms sometime in March.

The prosecution then went into further detail regarding the shooter's purchase history and web search history.

Cantu testified that the shooter searched "What websites do you like to buy guns from" on Jan. 1, 2021. Two days later, the suspect purchased a Ruger AR-556 223 Rem, a folding knife and ammo from GrabAGun.com, totaling $984.77, according to the detective. On Jan. 9, Cantu testified that the suspect purchased a handgun, magazines and ammo from the same website.

Cantu said the suspect searched "What is the most deadly type of round, bullet" and "Where to buy ammo" on Jan. 20. Four days later, he reportedly searched "Are 30-round magazines legal in Colorado?"

The detective testified that the suspect purchased boxes of green-tip ammo, totaling 80 rounds. The prosecutor asked Cantu if investigators found green-tip ammo at the suspect's home following the shooting. She said no, and all green-tip ammo was found at the King Soopers store.

On Feb. 18, the suspect bought a tactical gun case and earplugs from Amazon, according to the detective. He then bought an optic scope and a weapon used in the shooting on March 16, Cantu said.

Cantu testified that the Firefield optic scope that was purchased has different settings that show a red dot to help with aiming. The detective demonstrated the scope, which was passed around to the jury.

The detective then quickly outlined the timeline of events on the day of the shooting, beginning when the shooter left his home. At 2:21 p.m., the shooter stopped at 4035 Darley Avenue for one minute before traveling to the store.

Cantu said the defendant left his vehicle at 2:29 p.m. and shot someone. At 2:30 p.m., the shooter got into a "shooting stance" and shot another victim, the detective said. He then continued to the entrance of the store.

The shooter reportedly entered the store at 2:30 p.m. and shot someone before shooting another person two seconds later. He then changed magazines, Cantu said.

The detective skipped ahead to 2:32:34 p.m. when the suspect shot near Christopher Tatum in the back of the store. Tatum was not hit by gunfire, and was the deli manager who helped save several lives that day.

Suzanne Fountain was killed at 2:34:56 p.m.

Officers ran toward the east entrance at 2:35:33 p.m., and the suspect was shot at 2:39:33 p.m., according to Cantu.

The jury then watched a video of victims being shot. In the video, the shooter runs to the front of the store, appears to see extra officers arriving and runs to a different section of the store. He is then seen shooting at officers.

The court then broke for a morning break.


The court resumed at 10:50 a.m., and the prosecution called Dr. B. Thomas Gray, a board-certified forensic psychologist, to the stand.

Gray was assigned the case after the court ordered a competency evaluation for the defendant. That order was sent to the Colorado Department of Human Services, which assigned it to Gray.

Gray said he met with the defendant five times at the state hospital in Pueblo. Four of the five sessions were recorded. Gray testified that the fifth session was not recorded because it required testing.

According to Gray, the defendant did not talk much and it was hard to get information out of him. The shooter was reportedly "disinclined" to communicate and would isolate himself by choice. The staff at the hospital tried to get the defendant actively involved. Once the shooter began taking anti-psychotic medication in March 2023, his condition improved, according to Gray.

The shooter reportedly told Gray he experienced some auditory hallucinations. The doctor testified that the defendant also exhibited a "moderate degree" of suspiciousness with situations, which could be considered delusional paranoia.

Gray said the defendant was not willing to talk to doctors or other people about the shooting.

The doctor then testified that he spoke with the defendant's family members. Gray said the family remembered the defendant exhibiting normal behavior through middle school, but things changed once he entered high school. At that time, the defendant isolated himself and became less talkative, Gray learned.

The defendant's family said things began to escalate after he graduated high school, according to Gray. He began to not interact with anyone, including his family.

Gray testified that the defendant put tape over the camera of his laptop so he would not be spied on. He also reportedly broke a car key fob because he thought his family was being tracked. Gray said the defendant's father spoke of a time when they found the defendant in the bathroom in the middle of the night. He was reportedly talking as if someone was there, but he was alone.

Gray said he learned of several instances where the defendant thought he was being followed.

The doctor then recounted his visits with the defendant. The first occurred on Feb. 6, 2024, and the meeting lasted for two hours, according to Gray.

During the second meeting on Feb. 15, Gray said the suspect refused to meet but the two had a brief conversation about why he was unwilling. The defendant reportedly said he was not going to talk.

The two met again on Feb. 20 and there were no problems, according to Gray. The meeting lasted for about two hours.

The fourth meeting happened on March 21 and again lasted about two hours. The fifth and final meeting happened on April 29 and lasted about 40 minutes, according to Gray.

The doctor then detailed the defendant's family history. The suspect is from Syria and is the ninth child out of 10, according to Gray. He was working 10 to 12 hours a day, 6 days a week leading up to the shooting.

Gray said the defendant had no complaints about his childhood. He reportedly refused to answer questions about his childhood friends or if he took any medications as a child. He also reportedly did not want to talk about religion or his father teaching him how to pray, calling it personal.

Family members reportedly told Gray that their family was routinely monitored by federal agents because of their ethnicity.

Gray testified that the defendant said he heard voices "about once a week" but it escalated to twice a week in the months leading up to the shooting. When Gray asked about the voices, the defendant reportedly did not provide details. The most that doctors learned from the defendant was, "The voices are yelling and screaming."

The shooter told Gray that the voices were indistinct and that he could not discern specific words. He reportedly denied having a strong emotional response to the voices and said they did not frighten or concern him, according to Gray. The doctor also testified that he did not notice the shooter being distracted by any hallucinations.

The court then broke for lunch.


The court resumed at 1:31 p.m., and the prosecution continued its questioning of Dr. Gray. The prosecution played video from the mental health evaluations.

During a clip, the defendant said he hears voices about once a week. When asked about the voices, he described them as yelling and the volume was "in the middle."

The defendant said it was just one voice.

At one point, the defendant was asked if he felt any emotions when he heard the yelling, to which he responded no. He said he was not troubled and has never been troubled by them.

Gray testified that doctors kept questioning the defendant about the voices but no further information was given. The psychologist said he could not support the conclusion that the defendant was being directed by the voice of God or delusions.

The prosecution then showed more videos from the mental health evaluations. During one clip, the defendant was asked if he purchased the guns to commit a mass shooting, to which he responded yes. He then denied that the voices told him to commit the mass shooting.

The defendant was asked if the voices made him concerned about his own safety, to which he responded no.

Gray testified that the presence of the voices showed there was a mental illness, but there was a lack of evidence that the voices or any disturbance in thinking prevented the defendant from knowing right from wrong.

In another clip, the suspect is heard saying that he planned to die in the shooting because he did not want to go to jail. He said nothing else was going on at the time to make him want to die.

During the mental health evaluations, the defendant said he felt an adrenaline rush during the shooting. The psychologist asked the defendant what an adrenaline rush felt like, and he said he did not know.

Gray agreed that the defendant suffered from schizophrenia but testified that there was no evidence to indicate that his ability to understand right from wrong was impaired.

Gray testified that the defendant said more than once that he knew the shooting was wrong. The defendant also reportedly said he knew it was a violation of the law. Gray said there is evidence to suggest that the defendant could form intent, noting that he concealed firearms from his family members.

The doctor testified that, in his opinion, the defendant was legally sane.

The prosecution concluded its questioning and the defense team began its cross-examination.

The defense began its time by stating that the defendant had been at the state hospital for more than two years before the first interview with Gray took place. The defense also said that the suspect was on a powerful drug that is typically only used as a last resort for treatment. The doctor said he did not dispute that the suspect has schizophrenia and said the best treatment option is medication.

The defense team reiterated that though the defendant knew it was against the law three years after the shooting, it does not mean that he knew that fact at the time of the incident. The attorney also said the suspect's father and two older sisters suggested that the defendant was possessed by a spirit in their religion, which caused him to be paranoid.

The court then broke for an afternoon break.


Following a short break, the court resumed and defense attorney Kathryn Herold continued her questioning of Dr. Gray.

Herold said the defendant at one point told Gray that he thought the voices would stop yelling if he committed a mass shooting, which Gray confirmed. Gray also confirmed that the defendant, at one point, said he committed the shooting because of the voices.

The defense then played a clip from the February 2024 interviews. During the clip, the defendant said he knew what he did was against the law.

At that point, the defendant had been on medication for a significant amount of time and had been receiving treatment for the past two years, Herold stated. The defense attorney asked if this was when the suspect told doctors that he knew what he did was against the law, and Gray said yes. Gray testified that doctors told the defendant that it would be more helpful if he provided more information.

Gray confirmed that there were no records or reports of the defendant receiving any mental health treatment before the shooting.

Further into the defense's questioning, Gray recalled asking the defendant about his family and if someone was following him. The suspect's response was, "I don't want to talk about it." The defense noted that it would have been helpful for the defendant to admit he was paranoid, but he did not do that.

After showing a clip from the Feb. 20 evaluation, Gray testified that the defendant said the voices were not instructing him. Herold countered by asking if the defendant, at one point, stated that the voices committed the shooting and he felt he did not have a choice. The psychologist confirmed such interaction.

Herold showed another video from the mental health evaluations in which the defendant said, "I started hearing voices. Like killing. Like the killing voices. Then I opened up the car door and started shooting."

The defense questioned Gray about his testimony that the suspect wanted to die on the day of the shooting. Gray said the shooter wore a tactical vest but there were no plates in it, meaning it did not offer any protection. The shooter also stripped down to his boxers and surrendered to officers. Herold said such actions are inconsistent with someone who wants to die, and Gray agreed, stating that it appeared that the suspect changed his mind. Herold asked if maybe the voices in the defendant's mind told him to stop, and Gray said he could not definitively rule that out.

Later, Gray said he believed the defendant was reluctant to answer questions during the evaluations because he did not want to be considered mentally ill and did not want to be thought of as "crazy." The defense asked if it would be in their client's best interest to be mentally ill. Gray said being found not guilty by reason of insanity would be in the defendant's best interest, but he did not want that.

“Yes, he potentially recognizes that to be found not guilty by reason of insanity would be to his benefit, but he still doesn’t want to be crazy, which in and of itself doesn’t make sense. But let’s face it: not all of this does make sense," Gray said.

Herold then played video from the April 9 interview and asked Gray if he heard the defendant say, "I mean the consistent voices, they made me commit the shooting." Gray said he did not hear it but admitted that his hearing was not good.

The defense played more video and pointed to a specific interaction between a doctor and the defendant.

Doctor: “Were these actions meant to stop the voices?”

Defendant:  “To some extent.”

Doctor: “Can you tell me more?”

Defendant: “Maybe if I committed the mass shooting, the voices would go away?”

Doctor: “OK what made you think that?”

Defendant: “I thought that’s what the voices wanted — was a mass shooting.”

Gray said the team could not confirm that the defendant thought the voices would stop if he committed a mass shooting.

Following more questioning, Gray said he and another doctor opined that the defendant was sane at the time of the shooting, but they also wrote in their report that they were not entirely confident in that opinion. The psychologist said they were confident that the suspect had schizophrenia but they were hesitant about his state of mind due to his inability to provide more information.

The defense noted that Gray wrote in his report the suspect was experiencing a psychotic episode at the time of the shooting. Gray confirmed that that's what he wrote.

The defense then concluded its questioning, and the prosecution re-questioned Gray.

The prosecution asked Gray what he looks for to determine if a person can differentiate right from wrong. Gray said he looks to see if the person understands the legality of what they are doing, whether the act has moral implications, and if any mental disease is intruding on a person's ability to make that distinction. Gray said they could not determine what caused the defendant to change his mind and surrender instead of dying.

The prosecutor reiterated that having a mental illness does not make someone legally insane, and Gray agreed. The prosecutor then noted that there was no definitive evidence to show that the shooter was insane at the time of the shooting, and Gray confirmed.

The prosecution ended its questioning, and Gray was dismissed as a witness. The court recessed for the day.